New Bike Expectations

[DR650s]

At present I ride a 2002 KTM 250sx 2 stroke, I've had it for 4 years and have progressed well on it, I'm now starting to look at replacing it with a 2007 model ktm 250 2 stroke (I like KTM's...go figure :cool: ). My expectations are that the newer model will have better handling, be a little lighter , and possibly better power delivery (thought the current model is pretty good).

Ok the question is this.

Am I going to be dissapointed, am I going to find very little difference? I know this is almost impossible to answer but has anyone out there bought a new bike only to be really dissapointed in the new perchase. Also 5 years on from my model bike a lot should have changed, and the improvement should be a lot, or should they.

I know because unlike a car, a motorbike rider has a lot of input into the bike and therefore probably 90% of making a bike go fast is the rider, but obviously a better bike makes that easier, so for those that have ridden the older model bikes, is there a big difference in them to the newer bikes?

[28]

Hi buddy,

i can only talk from two perspectives. One being having a later version of a bike modelfrom an older version, and the other being dissapointed with a new bike.

Often the issue with new bikes is that riders will like them becuase they have the "crisp" feeling. Nothing vibrates, and everything works as it should, and this can often overshadow the true feeling of a bike. As a rule it almost always feels beter to get on a later model of what you are riding *with exceptions (which i will come to). Becuase factories will only want to make improvments. I've personally found that all the new models i've had have been an inprovment on the origional model.

Another problem is that people will often change brands or motorbike or model becuase they think it will make them faster, which in almost every case it won't. So i would say forget those thoughts.

My final imput is the issue of being dissapointed in a new bike. I am a Honda guy through and through. But Hollywood (paul) has really been a Yamaha guy throughout his motocross life. So i've rode a few yamahas. I fell ni love with the YZ250f, i rode the 02, 03, 04 and 05 bikes and really loved them. Infact i was alot faster than on my crf450. So i decided to buy the 06 model. AS you may know they changed to an ali frame and it was the worst bike i've ever rode. It was terrible. And i've spoke to many who share the same view,

So my final advice would be tho try the bike you are going for and see if it puts a smile on your face, beucase thats what we are all looking for!

[RacersEdge]

Hi Paul,

I agree with pretty much everything Jamie has said in his reply above. *apart from me being a Yamaha man throughout my career, which is not strictly true. with the exception of Kawasaki I have spent long periods of time on each of the other Jap brands, 3+ years in a row on al of them*

Some people sugest that a brand new standard bike is more of an advantage in competition than sticking to one highly tuned machine for an entire season. The reasons being, as J has already mentioned, everything on the motorcycle is tight including the motors internals keeping both thr bike and rider crisp. If you lucky you my get a bike that has been built just after the factory equipment has been re tooled, I believe, along with oldman hollywood that this was the case with my 1995 RM125, I didn't get it untill June and it was the best new mx bike i have ever had! It's difficult to say exactly what it was about the Suzuki, but it was just so strong and took me to some of the best rides in my youth career.

In your personal situation, 4 years will have seen some serious specification changes, especially with the Austrian KTM brand, The power delivery i would expect to be much sharper and the engine to have more horsepwoer. You may experience some disapointment with the susspension initially, there is a certain amount of bedding in time needed with brand new bikes and the standard settings will feel harsh for a while.

Do you know anybody with a new KTM you could test?

All in all Paul, You will be very pleased with you new steed. :)

[Smurf's Dad]

Jamie - I have heard you say a few times that the best bike you have ever ridden was the bike that you had as a youth racer. Rather than change for a new model every year you chose to improve the one you had until it really suited you. This makes complete sense to me and we are following a similar path with Smurf's KTM.

There is something to be said for a new bike though. On his KX85 Smurf won a single race. 2 weeks after getting the KTM he went through a spell of winning 7 out of 9 races entered. It had raised his confidence that much, and the KTM suited him so much better.

I also think certain riders are suited to certain bikes. We have a friend who is Honda through and through. Even though his son borrowed my 2000 RM and was much quicker on it than his tuned (and much newer CR) they stick with Honda. He also tried a KTM and just couldn't get on with it at all.

I think as you are changing to an updated version of a brand you are already happy with, you will find the bike excellent. Most people say that the KTMs improved dramatically in 2003 handling wise. Having said that - you bike of choice is one that most people find very difficult to ride.

[Mr White]

Hi,

I currently ride a 04 250sx, had the bike from new for 2 years now (bought the bike when the 05's came out).

This was after owning an 00 250sx. I cant really compare the two as i only really started to ride proper tracks and race on the 04. However, i will agree with smurfs dad, that the bike is a handfull! and has taken a bit of setting up (springs front and rear) i have also tried to detune it aswell.

I recently did a ktm tryout day at tonymoto in quite terrible conditions and tested the 125sx, 250sx and 250sxf, in that order. Couldnt get on with the 125sx at all. Rode the 250sx and fell in love with it! 10x better than my 04, a lot more stable and confidence inspiring. It just seemed to go everywhere i put it (unlike my bike, which wants to kill me at every given opertunity). I was so impressed, i wanted to forego my 2 sessions on the 250sxf for 2 more on the 250sx. Lucky for me, the 250sx was booked, so had to go on the 250sxf and am i glad i did! unbelievable bike. I could ride it like my 250 and the traction is out of this world. Also cornered like it was on rails! So more confident on jumps (no rear end trying to overtake the front!)This will be my next bike!

So, i would have to say the 07 250sx is miles better than my 04 250sx, but the 250f is even better. Try one, you wont be dissapointed!

Mr White

[DR650s]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I think I'm pretty well set on getting the newer bike, and just needed some persuading. I've had my bike 4 years now and have developed as a rider along with it. The suspension was revalved very early on by K-Tech as it was horrible to start with and kept trying to throw me off. When ever I ride any other bike I find the suspension plusher and nice when going easy, but as soon as I start to push the other bikes feel a lot less sure footed and too bouncy. I do think that with mine at the moment I am struggling to go faster and I'm not that confident with it in corners, every time I try to go a bit faster the front starts to push. Now this is could well be me, but I do wonder if a newer bike would inspire more confidence.

I think the real answer is to try one and see, I will have to have a look out for more KTM try out days.

[Mr White]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I think I'm pretty well set on getting the newer bike, and just needed some persuading. I've had my bike 4 years now and have developed as a rider along with it. The suspension was revalved very early on by K-Tech as it was horrible to start with and kept trying to throw me off. When ever I ride any other bike I find the suspension plusher and nice when going easy, but as soon as I start to push the other bikes feel a lot less sure footed and too bouncy. I do think that with mine at the moment I am struggling to go faster and I'm not that confident with it in corners, every time I try to go a bit faster the front starts to push. Now this is could well be me, but I do wonder if a newer bike would inspire more confidence.

I think the real answer is to try one and see, I will have to have a look out for more KTM try out days.

Keep us posted DR650s,

As soon i have some spare cash, i will be buying a new bike. I do like the 250sx, but have good days and bad days on it! but the 250f is so smooth and mild mannered! its just so easy to ride, but the only thing that puts me off is maintenance costs and the fact its a about £1000 more than the 250sx!

Mr White.

[mxady29]

Thanks for the replys guys.

I think I'm pretty well set on getting the newer bike, and just needed some persuading. I've had my bike 4 years now and have developed as a rider along with it. The suspension was revalved very early on by K-Tech as it was horrible to start with and kept trying to throw me off. When ever I ride any other bike I find the suspension plusher and nice when going easy, but as soon as I start to push the other bikes feel a lot less sure footed and too bouncy. I do think that with mine at the moment I am struggling to go faster and I'm not that confident with it in corners, every time I try to go a bit faster the front starts to push. Now this is could well be me, but I do wonder if a newer bike would inspire more confidence.

I think the real answer is to try one and see, I will have to have a look out for more KTM try out days.

Not being rude or owt.... but is it set up right... a lot of the time if the back isnt handling right it could be the forks that need setting up and vise versa... but dont ask me how to do it... I just come in from riding and complain it aint right and 'hollywood senior' makes an adjustment and it's all sorted....:rolleyes:

[DR650s]

Not being rude or owt.... but is it set up right... a lot of the time if the back isnt handling right it could be the forks that need setting up and vise versa... but dont ask me how to do it... I just come in from riding and complain it aint right and 'hollywood senior' makes an adjustment and it's all sorted....:rolleyes:


Possibly it isn't set up right, but I have played with it and have managed to get it handling the best I can. Maybe we need a set up training day:D

[28]

We'd have to draft in Hollywood senior for that one.

Paul, had you tried any other makes and sizes of bikes? I know you get on great with your KTM and i'm sure they are fantastic bikes. But it always seems to be well documented that the KTM 250 is the fastest and most agressive in terms of power and handling. Infact some of the top riders like McGrath and Langston pretty much admitted it was all too much for them. I just wondered if you'd tried anything else just to see how you got on... :)

[DR650s]

We'd have to draft in Hollywood senior for that one.

Paul, had you tried any other makes and sizes of bikes? I know you get on great with your KTM and i'm sure they are fantastic bikes. But it always seems to be well documented that the KTM 250 is the fastest and most agressive in terms of power and handling. Infact some of the top riders like McGrath and Langston pretty much admitted it was all too much for them. I just wondered if you'd tried anything else just to see how you got on... :)


I rode a 250YZF 2005 model, lacked power.

125 YZ 2003 I think.....Lacked Power

125 CR 2001 lacked power...

see where I'm going with this......


To be honest I don't find the power of mine too harsh or intimidating anymore, I would probably go faster on a 125 given time, but initally I just found I was going through the gears too quickly on all of them, and missed the power.

I think I need to get out and try a few bikes to really compare. And too be honest a nice KTM 125SX might be an idea.:D

[28]

I'm not surprised with the bikes above that you missed the power. I know what you mean. Once i got on an open class bike i always think there is something missing in the smaller biikes. I personally find it easier to ride the bigger bikes.

I'm thinking more along the lines of other 250 2strokes and maybe even the 450's. As your debating whether to get a new bike or not, i think iit would be useful to cross these other bikes off your list, just so you know you made the right choice.

[DR650s]

I do think though that you get used to the bike you ride normally, and possibly adapt your style to best suit that bike. Therefore when you borrow someone else's bike for a quick 10 minute ride it feels akward and not as good as yours. I have only every ridden one bike (a road bike) that was a 5 year later model of one I owned that blew my mind. Much lighter, quicker and easier to ride, I bought it trading in my old bike, only to hate it 6 months later as it was too vibey and small. The current bike I own for the road I never test rode, when I first bought it it felt heavy and hard to corner, but after a few days I loved it as it just needed more input to get it to corner right, and was a much more comfortable ride than the sports bike I'd chopped in for it.

So what I'm saying is that its hard to get a real idea of a bike on a quick ride, the bike might not be set up for me and therefore feel awful, but I do think I need to get to some test days and try lots of bikes.

[Smurf's Dad]

As you appear to be a confirmed KTM man it might be worth considering a couple of other options. In January it is rumoured that the 144cc 2 stroke is going to be released so that might be worth trying. Also have you considered the 200 EXC. I know it is an enduro model, but a lot of the owners of this bike regard it as the best bike ever made.

[DR650s]

As you appear to be a confirmed KTM man it might be worth considering a couple of other options. In January it is rumoured that the 144cc 2 stroke is going to be released so that might be worth trying. Also have you considered the 200 EXC. I know it is an enduro model, but a lot of the owners of this bike regard it as the best bike ever made.

I have considered a 125SX, and if the 200SX was still being made, I would consider that too. I like the power of my 250 and have started to use the upper range of its power, therefore I think I would miss it, but I need to try a KTM 125 or 144 to see if this is the case.

I know I don't ring my bikes neck, but also maintenance of a 125 might be an issue, at present I can get away with replacing the piston on my bike once a year, I've also never had to do a bottom end rebuild....yet, but feel that a 125 would require more piston changes and maintenance due to the high stresses put on it.

But I will have to have a go of a few bikes to see what I'm going to get.

[The Voice]

Smurf's Dad raised a point earlier about his son moving from a KX85 to a KTM and the improvemnts were huge. My son has only been riding/racing for 18 months, hes just turned 14 and he has been on a B/W Suzi for the majority of that time. My inexperienced view is to keep him on the same bike learning his riding skills until he moves up at 15 or 16 to a 125, but should I try and get him to try a different machine for a couple of sessions to establish whether a different machine suits him better?

Since buying the bike new Ive kept it standard apart from new bars and ASV levers, I have a top end re-build every 3-4 months clean the air filter after every session and change the spark plug now and then (petrol of course) and thats it. Should I maybe consider getting the bikes set up specifically for him, I dont know. If that kind of things going to make a difference what in particular should I have done?

I better stop now before I start asking too many question!!

[Priddle121]

ktm have continued to develop there 2 strokes, not by just putting new plastics and stickers, it seems there doing alot more, a new bike will certainly be faster and handle slightly better...power is not everything, suspension is the most overlooked thing in motocross, so getting that set up on your existing model may be valuable...

[RacersEdge]

Apparently the new Honda 2 strokes comes with BNG's this year! So i learnt at the Tonymoto track day from feet dragger spags anyway.







































What are BNG's I hear you ask...

Bold New Graphics :lol:

[28]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DR650s]

ktm have continued to develop there 2 strokes, not by just putting new plastics and stickers, it seems there doing alot more, a new bike will certainly be faster and handle slightly better...power is not everything, suspension is the most overlooked thing in motocross, so getting that set up on your existing model may be valuable...


Thats why four years ago the forks and shock were revalved and resprung. The suspension is regularly serviced. But the new 07 forks are dual chamber and apparently very very good. I'm not scared of playing with the settings on the suspension and I know what they do, I'm sure it could be set up better, but I still think that it will not be as good as the newer models.

As I said in the first post the engine on my current bike is about perfect, but the handling is lacking slightly, I'm hoping a newer model will handle better.

[Smurf's Dad]

Smurf's Dad raised a point earlier about his son moving from a KX85 to a KTM and the improvemnts were huge. My son has only been riding/racing for 18 months, hes just turned 14 and he has been on a B/W Suzi for the majority of that time. My inexperienced view is to keep him on the same bike learning his riding skills until he moves up at 15 or 16 to a 125, but should I try and get him to try a different machine for a couple of sessions to establish whether a different machine suits him better?

Since buying the bike new Ive kept it standard apart from new bars and ASV levers, I have a top end re-build every 3-4 months clean the air filter after every session and change the spark plug now and then (petrol of course) and thats it. Should I maybe consider getting the bikes set up specifically for him, I dont know. If that kind of things going to make a difference what in particular should I have done?

I better stop now before I start asking too many question!!

There were a few reasons for us changing from a KX to a KTM. Firstly Smurf loved the look of them. That isn't really a reason to change so initially I was against the idea, mainly down to the reputation that dogs KTM. The problem we had with the KX wasn't speed - the bike was quicker in a straight line than his KTM - it was the fact that the suspension bottomed out on a lot of jumps. The KX was a previously owned 02 S/W model so I didn't consider it worth spending money on to get sorted.

The KTM 85 has an extra inch of suspension travel when compared to the other 85s. We managed to get a new 05 KTM for a very good price, complete with small and big wheels and loads of other extras, because the 06 was about to be released. It took a while, but he finally grew into the big wheels. The other reason for going KTM was that, when we went to a round of the KWS to watch, every rider who wasn't sponsored by a Japanese manufacturer supported team was on a KTM. I expect the same will be true for the CRF150 this year.

I don't see any point in changing bikes for the sake of it. The KTM we have will last us until he is ready to move to a 125. That will not occur this year, as we see too many parents move their kids onto bigger bikes too early. In fact the KTM came as a big wheel, but after 5 minutes on a track the wheels were switched as it was obvious he wasn't comfortable.

If your lad isn't having problems with the bike I would leave him with it. Giving Mr. Hollywood £70-ish for one of his instruction days would probably be the best investment you can make for your son.

[DR650s]

Well I rode the new bike for the first time today and first impressions were that it lived up to the expectations. Turns really well, handles well. Power, well quite a bit more than my old 02, but its not snappy and seems so smooth. I was only running it in today so stayed in the mid range, but I'm sure the top end will be as impressive.

I will probably need heavier springs and I'm told the standard oil in the forks is pretty poor stuff, so I will get that done after a few more rides. But the suspension seemed a lot better than what I had, though the track I was riding was very rough after the first session, so it was hard to tell, but i'm prety sure I was riding quicker than I would have on the old bike and still felt in control.

I'm going to ride next weekend at a track I've ridden a lot at, and therefore I will know for sure how much better the 07 is to the 02, but I expect the suspesion to improve once its resprung and dialed in. Though the way my weights going I might not need heavier springs:eek: 14st 10Ib when i came in this afternoon.

I can't wait for next weekend.:cool:

[RacersEdge]

Brilliant Paul, I glad the new steed has lived up to your expectations. There's nothing like the feel of a new bike. (well nearly nothing!)

[Mr White]

Glad to hear you like the bike! A few things to look out for though DR650s:

The nut on the end of the silencer keeps coming loose on mine.
Go easy with the pressure washer on the radiator shrouds, the graphics come off real easy!
Front exhaust fitings come loose, especially the front one.
Ive fitted a clutch saver on mine but think this is a bad move.

Im 15.1/2 stone and have a stiffer spring on the rear, but the front seems fine tbh, only bottoms out on one jump at tonymoto (double before the triple, if i case it, strange eh?). Fine every where else! I just increased the comp and rebound.

Mr White.

[DR650s]

Glad to hear you like the bike! A few things to look out for though DR650s:

The nut on the end of the silencer keeps coming loose on mine.
Go easy with the pressure washer on the radiator shrouds, the graphics come off real easy!
Front exhaust fitings come loose, especially the front one.
Ive fitted a clutch saver on mine but think this is a bad move.

Im 15.1/2 stone and have a stiffer spring on the rear, but the front seems fine tbh, only bottoms out on one jump at tonymoto (double before the triple, if i case it, strange eh?). Fine every where else! I just increased the comp and rebound.

Mr White.


Thanks for the heads up. I did keep checking for loose bolts yesterday, but found none. I also thought the rad shroud graphics were impregnated in the shroud, but I never use a strong setting with the jet wash anyway, so hopefully they should be ok. Not too happy with the side number plate backgrounds, as it looks like you have to completely remove the airbox graphics to put them on, I might be wrong as I've only seen them in pic so far.

I need to set the sag up on the next ride, I didn't bother first ride as I'm under the impression that the suspension needs to bed in a bit, I know the pre-load on the shock was wound all the way down by the dealer as he knew I was a little heavy.

[jason]

i have a bigger rear spring itd the 80/250 if you want to buy it

[Walker]

can't beat the new bike feeling its not the same going back to 2nd hand, im treating myself to a 07 rm 250 in next few weeks just sick of problems with my 2nd hand 06. Enjoy the bike matey!

[motoxxx]

I rode my new bike for the first time on saturday,and im impressed with it.its more than likely just in my head,but it felt better to ride,and handled ruts better. but they have changed the forks since my 05 bike,so that might be the reason.
only prob is now,it doesnt look new:o bloody yamaha's and blue plastics:rolleyes: